Talk:Mia Madre

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Requested move 15 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 14:01, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My Mother (film) → Mia Madre – Title in the English-speaking world is Mia Madre, so the title used at Wikipedia should also be Mia Madre - not the literal translation My Mother, which is not used. See the press releases for the Cannes and New York film festivals, not to mention the reviews.[1][2][3] Film Fan 01:40, 15 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 06:29, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong rename The current disambiguator is ambiguous, because My Mother is also a film, a 2004 film, and therefore the current title should redirect to that topic, as it is the primary topic at the moment and also a film topic. We should not use ambiguous disambiguation. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:56, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Also Speedy revert undiscussed move from "Mia Madre" to "My Mother (film)" -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 07:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment I've filed an WP:RMTR to do the revert. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 07:04, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - The current title is not the primary film topic of "My Mother", because My Mother leads to the 2004 film, thus would be the prima facie primary topic of "My Mother" and therefore "My Mother (film)" should lead to the same topic. Per WP:NCF this film will necessarily need to be renamed, because it is ambiugously disambiguated with a different film topic, and thus will at minimum need to move to My Mother (2015 film) if it isn't reverted per WP:BRD. The current title already fails WP:PRECISE because of the ambiguous disambiguation does not identify the topic sufficiently to determine that it isn't "My Mother" -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 03:44, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:NCF. Plenty of sources to support the current title. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 09:06, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are considerably more sources using Mia Madre, especially as time goes on. "My Mother" was offered as a literal translation at Cannes. The NYFF doesn't even mention the translation. Film Fan 10:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So what if the NYFF doesn't mention it? Is that the authority on film titles? The answer is no, BTW. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 12:25, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

NYFF = first screenings in an English-language country, and there is no authority on film titles, besides consensus. It should be noted that for the other foreign films in the NYFF lineup, the official English language title is used (which "My Mother" is not). This reminds me of when a couple of outlets reviewed Amour as Love[4] at Cannes because they had been kind enough to include the English translation in their press release. Amour is Amour and Mia Madre is Mia Madre. Film Fan 12:54, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're right about consensus. Which states it stays at the English title, per WP:NCF. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:12, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. The title most used in the English-speaking world. You're not seriously suggesting we should move Amour back to Love? And Ran to Revolt? And Amores Perros to Love Dogs? Film Fan 00:05, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you'd like to raise a RM on each of those, I'd comment on the articles in question. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:15, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Enlightening. Film Fan 10:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the current title fails WP:NCF because it is ambiguous with the film My Mother; it also fails WP:PRECISE because it uses ambiguous disambiguation. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 03:41, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME as showed by Film Fan. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 04:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE Now added to the line-up of the Toronto Film Festival as My Mother per Variety and the Festival itself. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 18:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:NCF still does not support the current title. Either the proposed title or My Mother (2015 film) would need to be used, and not the current title. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 05:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- With the US population being much larger than that of Canada, I would take the title used at a prominent US festival[5] over the title used at a prominent Canadian festival. Film Fan 06:35, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What's the US population got to do with anything? Variety is a prominent US magazine and they refer to it as My Mother. And TIFF is way more prominent than the film festival you cite. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:45, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

TIFF and NYFF are equally prominent, actually. And not that it matters, but Variety usually refers to it as Mia Madre. Film Fan 10:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong again. NYFF isn't even accredited by FIAPF. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 11:54, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Couldn't be less relevant. NYFF is more prominent than the vast majority of the festivals on that list. Film Fan 14:26, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No it isn't. Do you have sources for your claim (not that it's relevant, we've already established My Mother is the correct title). Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 16:22, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Haha. Of course we have. Where's your source, first. Film Fan 00:45, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Already provided, above. Did you miss it? Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 06:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It appears you didn't understand the question. Film Fan 14:13, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME Srinu523 (talk) 08:07, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per the film title. Srinu523 (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Great reasoning there. Film Fan 14:13, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME as showed by Film Fan and others.Pincrete (talk) 07:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support' per WP:NATURALDIS. In terms of which name is more common, reasonable arguments have been made for both. But what is clear is that both titles are regularly use in English-language sources, so we should default to the title that is naturally disambiguated and does not require any parenthetical addition. Jenks24 (talk) 21:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

*Support as nominator per WP:COMMONNAME. Film Fan 15:16, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support for now since it seems the film seems to alternate between the Italian title and the English-language title in reviews and other sources, meaning no one title commonly recognized by English readers at this point. In addition, the film has not been "released in cinemas" per WP:NCF#Foreign-language films, so I am fine with defaulting to the original title (the Italian one) for now. I would be fine with revisiting the matter if the film in its US/UK/etc theatrical release (not film festival screenings) appears to use My Mother instead of Mia Madre. Erik II (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:33, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Erik II Just to note that Italy are going to submit their entry for the Best Foreign Language Oscar race, and from what I can tell, this film (under the English title) will be the submission. I know this is WP:OR until the film is submitted, but this should happen any day now. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:59, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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